I wasn’t clear in point (12) the two reasons are (a) it’s a ground level view (b) it is from the side. Both are fine in a short pitch game such as basketball but not so much football. Wouldn’t it be better to have a view from behind the goals to see the direction of play and also higher to see the shape of play. Rugby coaches sit higher up to get a better view and have earpiece links to coaches pitch side, for example,
More thoughts on potential discussion topics. It’s about as interesting as my previous post so take your cue from that…
(11) manager analytics - there is an abundance of data on players but what is used these days to choose a manager? Obviously their track record/cv is their available data but there must be more to it these days, even if it is soft data
(12) your point of view depends on your point of view - the manager has a terrible view of game flow, in my opinion, for two reasons (1) he is at ground level and therefore cannot as easily see the patterns of play, maybe why it takes until halftime to work out how to deal with the Hearts/Brugge press? I sit behind the goal at the Rangers end (also known these days as the Lisbon Lions stand…) and one thing that I like is that I see the direction of travel more easily, since the players and ball are generally heading towards me or away from me. Obviously managers actually know what they are talking about and I don’t but wouldn’t it be helpful if they had analysts watching the game from different perspectives?
(13) related to the previous point and the growth of analytics, why don’t teams that have enough money, including Celtic (a) install cameras all around the pitch at appropriate intervals (b) hire a bunch of smart, football-understanding analysts, based wherever, with one dedicated analyst per player, another for defence, anther for the opposition, another for….and use these to (c) talk through with each player or group of appropriate players how they game worked and how they approached it. Kind of like trying to work out why they were in that position, why they made that decision, what would they do different next time. I know nothing is better than experiencial learning of playing a real game but informed experiencial learning can only be a help
(14) chance/luck. Maybe you could explain this more. Being offside isn’t by chance, it was the structure of all the players movements. Just missing with a shot isn’t unlucky since you kicked it passed the post, it was close but it still wasn’t a goal and it wasn’t unlucky. So what is luck? Is the bounce of a ball luck, well it’s not a rugby ball so you can figure out how it bounces. The result of a deflection is luck I guess since no one knows exactly at what angle it hits someone’s knee and where it is going next. Does that mean you should shoot in a crowded area knowing you won’t score but you may or may not get lucky if it helps bring chaos to the penalty area? You can see that I don’t know what I am talking about but you know what I mean.
(15) it seem to me that all Rangers fans do indeed believe in their own version of transubstantiation (this Rangers really is the body and history of the one that died) should we tell them this?
Another good podcast. However you made the mistake of asking for ideas for future podcasts, so here are my top of mind thoughts. Feel free to ignore them all but you did ask….
(1) Pick a major statistical measure and explain it with various examples, whether Celtic or other team.
For example, penalty kicks. - are you best to shoot low/high/central etc?
- What is xg for each ?
- How do rebounds impact xg?
- In the penalty area, if you have the ball should you run directly at a defender as there is a good likelihood of a penalty or of the defender moving out the way?
- Etc
(2) invite former managers along to talk how they shaped their teams
(3) a gross simplification but football (rugby, basketball, tennis, table tennis, hockey, many ball sports), when you are in possession, is about moving your team and ball in such a way to move the opponent out of their ideal position and so give you a better chance of scoring/xg. Chess may be the most extreme example. Anyway, maybe bring in guests from other sports to talk through their tactics, but not in a way that means the listener needs a detailed understanding of that sport.
(4) what you really want to do is measure all the stats that you currently do but not for what has happened but for what was intended to happen. You want to measure their intentions. Maybe there was a great pass that was not intended. Obviously you can’t do this…well not until someone makes it happen and then Musk buys them out and monetizes it. Slightly more seriously, is there a way to game play decision making attributes. (If so I guess you would be millionaires)
(5) everyone plays inverted wingers these days, are there stats that show this is better than playing the traditional way?
(6) are you better to have a team where everyone is a 7/10 or 3 x 8/10 and 3 x 6/10. It is a competitive league so the team max is 7/10* 11 = 77. You can’t have 9/10 or 10/10 because it’s not realistic. The point being when it is a team of 11 players are you better to raise the average or to have some that are slightly better/worse than average? You are capped by your wage bill, hence the max you can afford is 77/110.
(7) I remember reading ‘Bounce’ by Mathew Syed some years ago, is there a way that analytics reinforces or shortcuts the idea of purposeful practice? Can you invite him along. In, fact invite Malcom Gladwell too 😀
(8) from that I get to athletes and how they try to peak. Are there analytics for football on how to peak within games or through a season? Maybe get athletes on, to focus on analytics not a trip down memory lane.
(9) learning from other sports, such as basketball where so much is analysed and used in real time. Obviously in football we don’t have the opportunity to have team meetings throughout the game but (a) are analytics available in real time to clubs? (b) which would be the most useful to use? (C) why can’t Brendan simply tell AR/GT this is the new message as the game progresses, no need to wait until halftime to communicate how to deal with Hearts press (d) also when clearly someone is getting subbed at halftime why not do it at 25 minutes and play 20 mins more with a better solution (Mourinho).
(10) low block, mid block etc - what do the stats say on the best way round them?
Anyway, that’s enough for now. Apologies to any other subscriber who reads this.
I wasn’t clear in point (12) the two reasons are (a) it’s a ground level view (b) it is from the side. Both are fine in a short pitch game such as basketball but not so much football. Wouldn’t it be better to have a view from behind the goals to see the direction of play and also higher to see the shape of play. Rugby coaches sit higher up to get a better view and have earpiece links to coaches pitch side, for example,
Part II
More thoughts on potential discussion topics. It’s about as interesting as my previous post so take your cue from that…
(11) manager analytics - there is an abundance of data on players but what is used these days to choose a manager? Obviously their track record/cv is their available data but there must be more to it these days, even if it is soft data
(12) your point of view depends on your point of view - the manager has a terrible view of game flow, in my opinion, for two reasons (1) he is at ground level and therefore cannot as easily see the patterns of play, maybe why it takes until halftime to work out how to deal with the Hearts/Brugge press? I sit behind the goal at the Rangers end (also known these days as the Lisbon Lions stand…) and one thing that I like is that I see the direction of travel more easily, since the players and ball are generally heading towards me or away from me. Obviously managers actually know what they are talking about and I don’t but wouldn’t it be helpful if they had analysts watching the game from different perspectives?
(13) related to the previous point and the growth of analytics, why don’t teams that have enough money, including Celtic (a) install cameras all around the pitch at appropriate intervals (b) hire a bunch of smart, football-understanding analysts, based wherever, with one dedicated analyst per player, another for defence, anther for the opposition, another for….and use these to (c) talk through with each player or group of appropriate players how they game worked and how they approached it. Kind of like trying to work out why they were in that position, why they made that decision, what would they do different next time. I know nothing is better than experiencial learning of playing a real game but informed experiencial learning can only be a help
(14) chance/luck. Maybe you could explain this more. Being offside isn’t by chance, it was the structure of all the players movements. Just missing with a shot isn’t unlucky since you kicked it passed the post, it was close but it still wasn’t a goal and it wasn’t unlucky. So what is luck? Is the bounce of a ball luck, well it’s not a rugby ball so you can figure out how it bounces. The result of a deflection is luck I guess since no one knows exactly at what angle it hits someone’s knee and where it is going next. Does that mean you should shoot in a crowded area knowing you won’t score but you may or may not get lucky if it helps bring chaos to the penalty area? You can see that I don’t know what I am talking about but you know what I mean.
(15) it seem to me that all Rangers fans do indeed believe in their own version of transubstantiation (this Rangers really is the body and history of the one that died) should we tell them this?
As before, feel free to ignore, just some ideas.
Another good podcast. However you made the mistake of asking for ideas for future podcasts, so here are my top of mind thoughts. Feel free to ignore them all but you did ask….
(1) Pick a major statistical measure and explain it with various examples, whether Celtic or other team.
For example, penalty kicks. - are you best to shoot low/high/central etc?
- What is xg for each ?
- How do rebounds impact xg?
- In the penalty area, if you have the ball should you run directly at a defender as there is a good likelihood of a penalty or of the defender moving out the way?
- Etc
(2) invite former managers along to talk how they shaped their teams
(3) a gross simplification but football (rugby, basketball, tennis, table tennis, hockey, many ball sports), when you are in possession, is about moving your team and ball in such a way to move the opponent out of their ideal position and so give you a better chance of scoring/xg. Chess may be the most extreme example. Anyway, maybe bring in guests from other sports to talk through their tactics, but not in a way that means the listener needs a detailed understanding of that sport.
(4) what you really want to do is measure all the stats that you currently do but not for what has happened but for what was intended to happen. You want to measure their intentions. Maybe there was a great pass that was not intended. Obviously you can’t do this…well not until someone makes it happen and then Musk buys them out and monetizes it. Slightly more seriously, is there a way to game play decision making attributes. (If so I guess you would be millionaires)
(5) everyone plays inverted wingers these days, are there stats that show this is better than playing the traditional way?
(6) are you better to have a team where everyone is a 7/10 or 3 x 8/10 and 3 x 6/10. It is a competitive league so the team max is 7/10* 11 = 77. You can’t have 9/10 or 10/10 because it’s not realistic. The point being when it is a team of 11 players are you better to raise the average or to have some that are slightly better/worse than average? You are capped by your wage bill, hence the max you can afford is 77/110.
(7) I remember reading ‘Bounce’ by Mathew Syed some years ago, is there a way that analytics reinforces or shortcuts the idea of purposeful practice? Can you invite him along. In, fact invite Malcom Gladwell too 😀
(8) from that I get to athletes and how they try to peak. Are there analytics for football on how to peak within games or through a season? Maybe get athletes on, to focus on analytics not a trip down memory lane.
(9) learning from other sports, such as basketball where so much is analysed and used in real time. Obviously in football we don’t have the opportunity to have team meetings throughout the game but (a) are analytics available in real time to clubs? (b) which would be the most useful to use? (C) why can’t Brendan simply tell AR/GT this is the new message as the game progresses, no need to wait until halftime to communicate how to deal with Hearts press (d) also when clearly someone is getting subbed at halftime why not do it at 25 minutes and play 20 mins more with a better solution (Mourinho).
(10) low block, mid block etc - what do the stats say on the best way round them?
Anyway, that’s enough for now. Apologies to any other subscriber who reads this.
Great ideas Mike! Thanks for sharing. We’ll digest them and see what we can do.
Thank you Mike!
AJ not AR